WHO’S WHO ENTERTAINMENT
HOLLYWOOD UNIONS
Two Union Veterans Reflect
Leonard Chassman and Ken Orsatti have nearly 40 years’ experience as labor leaders in Hollywood. Chassman, executive director of the Screen Actors Guild from 1984 to 2001, has also worked for AFTRA and the Writers Guild of America. Orsatti was national executive director of SAG from 1981 to 2001 and also worked for AFTRA. They were interviewed separately.
Conor Dougherty
What has been the biggest change in labor/management relations you’ve witnessed?
Chassman: Up through the 1970s the contractual gains that the entertainment industry unions enjoyed were quite extraordinary. This began to slow considerably in the early 1980s. Negotiations became much more difficult and the economic return in negotiations was not as great.
Orsatti: When I started, back in 1960, there was a more level playing field between management and the unions. When the actors went on strike, the studios were shut down. There was one quote attributed to Ronald Reagan, “The Screen Actors Guild is the only union in the world that when they strike does not have to set up a picket line. All we have to do is stay in bed and the producers can’t produce product.” And for the most part that was very true.
Why have the changes been so great?
Orsatti: You didn’t have international conglomerates back in the early days. Another of the major changes is in the number of crews available around the world that are very good, that can produce product professionally. The world is a much smaller place. Hollywood is still the capital of the world when it comes to filmmaking, but it’s certainly not what it was back in the golden era and will never be again.
So the playing field isn’t level any longer?
Orsatti: The structure of the corporations we were dealing with has changed, and the ability to have an impact in a strike isn’t as great as it was early on. A studio could be subject to a strike and not make a profit, but the parent company could end up making money even though the studio is shut down. That was not true in the ’40s, ’50s and ’60s.
Who was the toughest negotiator you faced?
Chassman: The person who comes to mind was Jim Sirmens. He was vice president for industrial relations at CBS for many years. He represented a corporate culture that was unique to the networks. The film studios, at least up until recent years, always had a sense of community with the people who worked for them. I never sensed that with the networks. They really had a more traditional, industrial approach to collective bargaining.
Where do you see unions in the future?
Chassman: I have a bias, but I think management recognizes them as a force that has to be dealt with, unlike some industries that try to undermine the very existence of unions.
Orsatti: My very strong feeling regarding the performance unions, primarily AFTRA and SAG, is that they must find a way to merge. If they don’t, I don’t know if either one will be able to survive.
Why is that?
Orsatti: The jurisdiction of the Screen Actors Guild and AFTRA in regards to television has always been a tenuous one. And with both unions claiming jurisdiction over digital television, that’s only becoming more highlighted. For both to claim digital television and fight internally is, in my view, self-defeating. That time should be spent looking at how you can better all of the performers by contract negotiations rather than have these jurisdictional fights.
